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They'll all fall

Friday, February 25, 2005

Eek's Approach Exercise #1

This is a post of one of the pages from my private Wiki. I've kept it in the original form, so there may be some weird references.

Eek's Approach Exercise #1

This exercise is structured for use by a pair of trainees. If you do not have a wingman yet, look at getting a wingman before continuing your training. As usual, the two good guys are labelled as "Alan" and "Bob".


The goal of the exercise is to get rid of approach fear. Side benefits include:

  • Learning how girls react to approaches in general
  • Getting used to the street venue
  • Integrating and becoming congruent with one or more canned openers
  • Becoming familiar with using canned material

The exercise

  1. Alan and Bob select and memorize a canned opener.
  2. Alan and Bob select a time goal for their exercise. Examples: Walking to a particular location, or doing the exercise for one hour, or approaching ten women each (DO count foreign speakers or those that do not react - you've won over the approach fear anyway!)
  3. They walk slowly down a fairly idle street. While they walk, they focus on alpha body language and looking for targets - and talk together, of course.
  4. First Alan approach a girl (or group) going in the opposite direction or standing still and deliver his opener. He only delivers the opener (focusing on perfect delivery) *and then ejects*.
  5. Next, Bob approach a girl (or group) going in the opposite direction or standing still and deliver his opener. He only delivers the opener (focusing on perfect delivery) *and then ejects*.
Keep exchanging between the two last points until the time goal has been reached.

Sticking points

Here are a few aspects of form that are easy to forget:

  • Using alpha body language even while ejecting
  • Delivering the opener slowly, with appropriate phrasing (pauses, emphasis, etc)
  • Remembering to actually get a reaction when you are using that variation
  • Too much activity in the street, making for a more frightening environment
  • Too little activity in the street, resulting in few targets


  • Social pressure is going back and forth, so for Bob there is a sudden increase in social pressure to *do* an approach when Alan has just done one. When Bob completes his approach, the social pressure switches to Alan again. Bob can relax, with no pressure, until it is his turn again.
  • The use of canned material removes focus on what to say
  • Focus on alpha body language adds something to do between approaches, so Alan and Bob has something to distract them from building fear.
  • Focus on delivery when delivering keeps Alan and Bob's attention busy, so there is no attention free to build anxiety.
  • Immediate eject results in disassociation from the outcome.
  • Going for girls that stand still or is moving the opposite direction makes your mistakes "disappear behind you"



You should do ALL of the below variations before you consider yourself through with the exercise.

  • Wait for reaction before ejecting. You *should* run this variation before you consider yourself done with the exercise. Ideally, try to introduce delay to get as much of the reaction as possible as you repeat the exercise. First, however, congratulate yourself on actually being able to do the approaches :-)
  • Extend to actually do some improvised interaction with her before ejecting.
  • Change the opener you use. Do this only after you've worked the exercise enough to be congruent with the opener you already use. Normally, that would be after 10 to 20 approaches, depending on how easily you integrate stuff. I suggest keeping your opener *even if it gives lousy results*, because this allows you to learn how being congruent helps, and being able to go up to a girl even with a bad opener is better than only being able to walk up to a girl if you've got a good opener.
  • Play with crazy ways to deliver the opener. Once you've got the opener in and you're congruent with it, you can start playing with how you deliver it - say, totally widening your eyes, or saying it in a Texas accent, or putting your head in a weird angle. See what reactions you get.
  • Change venue. This is a significant variation, and should be done when you are comfortable with this in the original venue (the street). However, it is essential to get congruent with approaching in any venues, so you should do this variation. In particular, you should do the club variation, where you go into a club, and exchange approaching and delivering openers to every group of girls in the club. This will make you congruent with opening in a club. In a club approach, you should focus on voice projection. Other trainable venues are malls, bars, stores, train stations, etc. Always just walk through and rapidly eject the first time. The very first time you do a bar/club, select a club to WASTE (define that you are never going to go there again), and walk in, deliver an opener to a table, and walk out again, never to be seen there again.
  • Do the exercise alone. It is a very good idea to do this kind of approaching alone, but it is also quite hard. As you get comfortable, you should try this variation. The best way to get into approaching alone is to start alongside a wingman like usual to do get warmed up to approaching, and then split and go your separate ways, opening girls in series alone.
  • Instead of approaching girls going in the opposite direction you do (or standing still), approach girls going in the same direction. This adds the challenge of the girl staying in your vicinity longer.
  • Work more on the body language part: Ensure that your first contact with her is done sideways or over your shoulder to behind, and only open up the body language as a reward for her opening up to you. Specifically: DO NOT GO DIRECTLY TOWARDS HER. Instead, pass by on the side, and turn your head only towards her as you do the opener.
  • Use a situational opener instead of the canned one. (FIXME This variation is not field tested.)
  • Stand still and wait for the girls to come to you, delivering your opener as they pass by.


You can do these variations if you like; they're not necessary, but may add variety.

  • If you've mastered alpha body language, do something else that require focus while walking. You're always supposed to be talking together, so discussing what you can talk about when you're with girls later (and prepping the topics a bit) is a good investment of time.
  • Instead of adding a fixed goal, do the approaches for as long as you want to. This is useful when both of the participants has gotten used to doing approaches, and just want some more relaxed playing to get it totally internalized.

Not recommended

The following variations have significant drawbacks, and we do not think you need them. They may be useful in some situations, and you may make them up on your own (I did), so read through them anyway.

  • Doing the exercise with more than two people. This does not work well if two of the people are experienced and one is new, at least. The social pressure becomes too much. (I suspect it might be ideal if the exercise is done with two people at the exact same level from the start - this makes the pressure "better", in a way.) It is OK to do the exercise with more people if you actually get it to work, of course, but our experiences has been that being two is easier.


This exercise was gold for me (Eek) and Esteanil when we were starting up. It is fairly easy to do, and the factors above made it easy to perform. There may be more factors hidden in the exercise; feel free to add above.

The ideal is that both of you perceive the other party to be at about the same fear level for approaching - so fake that you're more scared than you are if you're having problems with getting the wing in.

I've found shopping streets that people walk through on their way home to be ideal in the time from 1800 to about 2300. After 2300, girls seem to get a little frightened by approaches and give less positive reactions.

For more rapid learning, you can anchor your state after every successful approach. This will let you recall the state easily (and will train you in anchoring to boot :-) I recommend a firm touch between the ring finger and thumb on your right hand for your "confidence anchor" (which this will be part of.)

Thursday, February 24, 2005

Love styles

While browsing the Journal of Sex Research, I found this article with definitions of different "Love Styles": Eros (passionate love), Ludus (game-playing love), Storge (friendship love), Pragma (logical “shopping list” love), Mania (possessive, dependent love), and Agape (all-giving selfless love). Very interesting. I look forward to reading more from this journal.

And while searching for more info on the love styles, I found
About.com's collection of information on love.

Body language - a reply

Steve (of Games are for Children) has started An interesting experiment.

I commented on his body language in a picture, and he submitted two different pictures to Hot or Not to test out what he took as my advice. He also wrote a bit about varying body language to achieve an outcome, etc. I wrote a long reply there, and some software ate it, so I'm posting here instead. As you read through all of this, if you keep your attention up, you'll find that there are small tidbits of new knowledge mixed with the reply.

The main thing that struck me was that Steve has misunderstood what I said, so obviously I need to communicate more clearly. "The meaning of communication is the response you get". Some of the main things I should have communicated around body language is that it is always a combination of things, that it is a question of continual adjustment to the party you are communicating with, and it is a means of getting an outcome you want. I've assumed that Steve's preferred outcome is to seduce real, live women, and the feedback was on basic aspects of the body language that achieve that outcome.

The basic attitude required for seducing people is "I am interested in you. However, I am also judging you. I am only interested in you IF you live up to my criteria, and continue living up to those criteria." If you signal "I am interested in you" without the "However, I am also judging you" part, you are basically saying "I don't care shit about you being you. You have sexual organs of a type I like, you look decent, and that's enough for me."

In body language as well other subcommunication, you communicate interested-but-judging by sending mixed signals. For instance, keeping eye contact (an interest signal) and having crossed arms (a closed signal). Or you talk to the person but keep turned away or leaned back. As the person reveals more of herself that you like, you

Another important aspect of seductive body language - for males- is basic dominant body language. This works out as "I'm willing to take space, I'm willing to look large." That works directly on the limbic system. In men, this turn out as (among other things - and again, these are guidelines, and used only some of the time):
  • Keep your hands turned so your thumbs point towards your body. This makes your arms appear from their largest side
  • Keep your shoulders back. This makes them wider.
  • Keep your elbows a bit away from your body. This makes your overall upper body take more space.
  • Stand and walk with your feet about shoulder width apart.
Note that doing all of this together will easily result in a complete "alpha pose". That pose is group dominant and can be slightly scary. So adjust as appropriate, depending on how the people around you react.

Here is a claim in Steve's post:

Ever since eighth grade when I learned about how body language affects others, I have avoided crossing my arms when around other people because it conveys boredom or disinterest. Remember how I talked about so-called "confidence" and arrogance a few posts back? I don't think anyone will dispute that crossing one's arms unnaturally in order to play "hard to get" is anything but arrogance.
Yes, I will. Or maybe I'll just displute that "unnaturally" exists. And: You are not supposed to play hard to get. You are supposed to be hard to get.

Anyway: In the first sentence of that statement Steve notes that his present body language is the result of training over many years. Training he's done as a result of somebody telling him how his body language affect others. It is natural that going back to using his complete body language will feel weird. "Incongruent" is the normal term from NLP - you aren't used to it, and all your communication is not adjusted together. "Congruent" means that all the different aspects of combination and motivation do work together.

Now, your mind sort of naturally "seek congruence"[1]. If you force your body language to match a particular attitude, parts of that attitude will follow. So if you cross your arms and lean back in the fashion of judging the person, you will judge the person at least a bit more. You will also get more choice in body language (as this becomes natural after a short while) , and you will get more choice in girls, naturally making you harder to get and making you choose girls you fit better with.

As to arrogance: Two of the tenets of NLP are "The meaning of communication is the result you get" and "You cannot not communicate" (because even sitting still in the corner with closed eyes communicates something).

When I, for instance, cross my arms and keep eye contact, I am trying to learn how to communicate better. I am trying to get a larger range of things I can use to communicate. I am trying to send the signals that give the results I want, because I sincerely believe I will make both my and the other person's life better by this.

As I change my attitudes, my belifes, my fears - I will naturally have some parts that feel weird, difficult, "unnatural". However, they are not "fake" - they are just steps on the way to a me that can do all of this "naturally".

Thundercat's: The bad and the good

Thundercat has started posting very good articles on his blog. The last one is "The Secret Of Success, Deservedness Issues, And The Gift Of Anger". This is a great piece, but it miss the part on how to make the goals help instead of HURT you.

Just making up random goals and then pursuing them hard WILL screw up parts of your life. And the goals are likely to be lousy goals - hard to reach, and giving much smaller benefit than they could have.

Here are two steps that should help fix this:

  • Do ecology checks on each goal. How will my life be different if I reach this goal? What parts will be worse? Using the information from the next point, what different goals could be used?
  • For each goal (wanted outcome), ask yourself: "What will this give me?" Repeat until you're unable to answer. For instance, an example of how this could go point 5 above: What will this give? More money. What will more money give me? More stuff. What will more stuff give me? More status. What will more status give me? More influence with some of the people I talk to.

    Here, the end result is quite different from the original statement. This gives different perspective, and it allow different means to reach the goal. Instead of learning about the stock market (which is a multi-year all-spare-time project if you want to beat putting your money in an index fund - almost no fund managers are able to beat the index funds) you can go read Cialdini's "Influence" and put the money in an index fund.

    And you can keep your friends.

I've posted on creating good goals and fullfilling them previously:
I'll be posting more on the meta question technique (the second technique mentioned above) later. I just needed to get this stuff out.

Tuesday, February 22, 2005

Things that make me feel closer to a partner

(From a posting elsewhere)

  • Cuddling/touching. Just touching each other because it feels good, non-sexually. Like sitting "on top of each other" or stroking the other as goes past him/her as part of other activites.
  • Spending time together without doing anything together. E.g: One of us sits reading, the other thinking
  • Cooking food together
  • Looking into each other eyes (just sitting there looking at each other)
  • Doing small thoughtful things for each other
  • Example: Leaving/finding small "Hi" notes
  • Example: Giving/receiving small gifts for no reason (it is the intention/thought behind the gift that counts, not the cost)
  • Doing minor sacrifices for each other. This must be balanced - if it goes out of balance, it creates distance. Example of sacrifice: Going to a different movie than you would really have preferred because you know your partner would much rather see another one, and that one is reasonably OK by you.
  • Planning things to do together in the future. E.g: Planning a vacation together.
  • Sharing secrets. Either common ones, or one of us "giving" one to the other.
If anybody can think of others, please add a comment, no matter how late - I'll probably republish this later with more added.

On belief satisfying itself

There is a belief out there that believing something about people directly make that belief come true, for any belief.

For instance, over on Mindlist, a guy just complained about women being manipulative. Someone then suggested that he attracted manipulative women by believing women to be manipulative.

I find it premature to conclud that the belief attract people that fit the belief. My experience is that there are at least five sides to the beliefs about other people's behaviour:
  • Everybody notice the things that match their beliefs, and disregard the things that goes against their beliefs. The beliefs influence their filters.
  • Everybody interpret other's actions according to their beliefs. And I don't mean in what they notice; I mean that if a girl looks crossly at me, I may interpret it as her having a bad day, and if the same girl looks exactly the same way at another guy, he might interpret it as her hating him.
  • Every person tend to trigger a particular set of behaviours in others by how they subcommunicate. This triggered behaviour tend to again influence belief, giving a positive feedback loop.
  • People tend to move towards the role others assign them, the things others expect of them. For instance, I expect everybody to treat me fairly and give me respect. As a result, everybody does so almost all the time. I know people that treat most people quite badly - and me fairly, because I utterly expect that from them, no matter what.
  • Everybody has a certain set of subconscious filters for what kind of people they choose to interact with. These filters will often result in picking the same "kind of people", which again gives rise to similar experiences, and thus beliefs.
With all of this stuff going on - who needs the belief to attract somebody to fit with it, anyway?

(outlink) Listen up, boys: Two can play that game

Yesterday's opinion piece in Penn State University's student newspaper is on the topic of girl's game, by It comes with the title "Listen up, boys: Two can play that game".

Her comments were so obnoxious to me that they made me tempted to go out and use my skills to make girls fall in love with me and dump them. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that it would help anything.

Monday, February 21, 2005

Hunter S. Thompson passed away

This is totally offtopic, and this is my blog, so I'll post it anyway.

Hunter S. Thompson took his life this morning.

My regrets, my condolances, and my respect for the work he did.

Blog posts:

Eye Contact - comment

Over on Games are for Children, Steve posted about Eye Contact.

Now, since people that read They'll All Fall might also read Games are for Children, I thought I'd take the time to give more correct information.

Very important: Always read body language signs together. One sign alone says little; all together can fill a book in an instant.

Eye contact is a benefit in approaching a girl. Eye contact it is not necessary, nor is it sufficient. It indicates a level of interest towards the person you are having eye contact with. Possibly a light interest, most likely a non-sexual interest, possibly a negative interest, and still some interest. It is perfectly possible to look people over without eye contact (as opposed to what Steve says).

With girls, you can get an indication (not 100%, of course) of how this interest goes by looking at how they keep or break the eye contact. If they keep eye contact up, it is a good sign. If they break eye contact by looking down, that is also a good sign (it's slightly submissive, and can indicate sexual interest). If they break eye contact by looking to the side, that's a slightly bad sign.

The idea that girls change their interest level depending on whether they are with their boyfriends or not wrong. Girls can and will often be interested in you even when their boyfriend is along. If the boyfriend is along, it is likely her inhibitions will be higher, and she's less likely to perform infidelity with you. If that's what you are after.

Sunday, February 20, 2005

(outlink) Master's Apprentices: Congruence Makeover pt. 1

There's a nice post going through various aspects of non-verbal communication over at Master's Apprentices: Congruence Makeover pt. 1

"Congruence" means having all aspects of yourself working together towards a goal. The post describes aspects of body language and voice use that goes towards being congruent with being relaxed, dominant, alpha.

I'll also repeat my standard advice: Work on your body language. Work on your voice use. These are very, very important for having your seductions work. You can seduce using only body language and voice tonality; and it is almost impossible to seduce without them.

Working on your body language feeds directly back into other aspects of confidence. Your body language will fix itself without intervention if you fix everything else. However, everything else will fix itself much easier if you fix your body language first :-)

(outlink) Warp My Mind

OK, another weird hypnosis site coming up: "Warp My Mind".

The site is the most complete example I have seen of "Lifestyle hypnosis" - using hypnosis for the alternative lifestyles (BDSM etc). It has a large MP3 and script collection, including some that can be interesting for "mundanes" (aka normal people). I'll take the time to quickly note the specifics that seem interesting to me:

For becoming a better seducer, I think the "Instant Jock" files could help. These turn your interests over to bodybuilding, drinking, sports, and sex. I personally think the cost of losing my other interests is too high, but to each his own.

Of even more interest is the "Sexy man trigger" - this makes you feel as sexy as at all possible on command, including the confidence. This one is going into my repertouire.

"GoldTime" (letting you see all girls as covered in gold and, if you want to, naked) seems fun - I'm going to test it.

The arousal (automatically make person horny), bimbo (make girl into bimbo on command and have her forget afterwards), and "Horny schoolgirl" (should be obvious) could be fun; I'll probably study these, as they fit with games I play with some girlfriends.

The experience trigger seems useful for automatic training; it sounds similiar to Brian David Phillips' "Memory Machine", letting you absorb skills just by watching others perform them.

Some of the other files are interesting as inspiration; the above are the only ones I might end up using verbatim.

Friday, February 18, 2005

Voice books / fixing voice issues

Surprise surprise - I'm interested in voice use, too, so I thought I'd give out some recommendations, and share how I would solve a particular problem.

For beginners, the best voice book I have found is Roger Love's "Set Your Voice Free". It is fun, gives enthusiasm for voice, covers both speaking and singing voice (including how to move the skills from singing to speaking), gives simple background on the physical issues involved, and includes easy exercises for fixing a bunch of vocal problems. If you want to change to exercises that can give more precision easily, I like "The Secrets Of Singing" by Jeffrey Allen. I think those exercises would be quite boring until you've discovered enthusiasm for voice in general, though.

My vocal coach highly recommends "The Structure Of Singing" by Richard Miller. I have not gotten around to getting this yet, so this is a pure second-hand recommendation.

Over on mASF, somebody just asked for help with his voice skills. He had problems with speaking too fast and mumbling, and asked for book recommendations. The generic skill increase from going through the books may solve these problems, but I think the following is the easiest way to fix them:
  • Split the problems into "talking too fast" and "mumbling", and tackle them one at a time
  • For three weeks, concentrate on speaking slowly. All the time. With everybody.
After this, you should have speaking slowly in as a habit. Speaking slowly and confidently should be automatic ("Unconscious competence" in NLP terms). Now, your problem with mumbling may be there, or it may have disappeared by itself, leaving you speaking clearly.

If the mumbling isn't gone, take three weeks where you focus on speaking clearly. The vocal exercises might also help with the mumbling, depending on the cause of mumbling. Most likely the mumbling will disappear along with the speed, though.

If you do not easily remember to keep focus on an issue to fix, run affirmations on it every morning, and post a large sign on every door in your house reminding you of it. (Just putting it on the door out can work too.)

Feeling lonely or shy? Go exercise.- daily

Steve over on Games Are For Children posted about his experiences with shyness and overcoming it, and an abstract from a paper:

The purpose of the current study was to estimate the relationship between exercise frequency and measures of shyness and loneliness in a sample of 882 college students. Analysis provided evidence that higher shyness and loneliness scores were associated with not exercising and infrequent exercising. Also, subjects who exercise 7 times a week scored significantly lower than the other exercise-frequency groups. Analysis of covariance, controlling for possible confounding variables, gives further support.
Now, this does not say anything if this is cause or effect. However, there are several effects from exercise that seems likely to contribute this way:

  • Hormonal: Exercise burns cathecolamines (adrenaline and noradrenaline), which also lead to lower production of cortisol. Overall, this means lowered stress level.
  • Hormonal: Exercise tends to regulate sleep, leading to more energy. (This may be the same effect as above, though I seem to remember an additional regulating effect on melatonin.)
  • Physical/hormonal: Exercise regulates hunger appropriately, leading to more energy.
  • Physical/Mental: Exercise leads to production of new brain cells, which seem to be involved in curing depression. Thus, more positive feelings/filters overall.
  • Social/Physical: Exercise leads to looking better/healthier, which again gives more positive social feedback.
  • Social: Many forms of exercise includes some social activity directly.
I used a google search for estimate the relationship between exercise frequency and measures of shyness and loneliness to find this; there seems to be more interesting articles popping up underneath.

Identity: Exercise #2

You've all done They'll all fall: Identity: Exercise #1? Good. (If you have not done it yet, go back and do exercise #1. Then wait a day before reading the below - you want your mind to clear.)

Here's exercise #2:

We all have things we want to have done during our life. I'd like to have lived in a different country, I'd like to write a book, I'd like to have kids, I'd like to ...

Write out a list of some of the things you want to have done during your life. Spend at least five minutes; continute as long as it's fun.

And here's the explanation for the previous exercise (exercise #1):

As I said, everybody has an ideal self, a person they strive to be. And you will never be able to fully define that ideal self. Starting to define it gives it more shape, adds thoughts to each aspect, and is a basis for starting to move towards being that ideal self.

Going through that exercise, you probably found some aspects that are in conflict with each other. We'll resolve these and give you more flexibility in a later exercise; for now, just let them be, and be happy that you know a bit more about yourself, and can be a trifle more you every day.

Wednesday, February 16, 2005

Jeff Gavin: Internet dating much more successful than thought

Dr Jeff Gavin (a psychologist from Bath Univeristy) has done a study (Eurekanews coverage) on Internet dating vs "real life dating" (picking up girls in bars etc), with interesting (and somewhat surprising) results. BBC reports the research here, Reuters here, and I've unfortunately been unable to find the original paper online anywhere.

Another possibly interesting appearance of Jeff Gavin was on UK television:
The Trouble With Love, a three hour roundtable discussion about love, discussing the history and present forms of love.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005

(outlink) Monthly Articles On Hypnosis Techniques

Gerald Klein is posting Monthly Articles On Hypnosis Techniques. Itæs of somewhat varying interest - for instance, I find the "Light Switch Self Hypnosis Induction" to be interesting - and "The Hypno-Bus" to be totally uninteresting (if a trifle amusing, at least when viewed with my prejudices about american culture).

Bad Cupid's Wicked Valentines

These are funny (if a trifle late): Bad Cupid's Wicked Valentines

Candy, flowers,
diamond rings:
all things I can't afford.
I spent my cash on surgery
to add inches to my sword!

(Don Swain)


I'd like to play
a game with you --
I'm thinking Naked Twister.
I'll bring the board
and lots of wine --
could you please
bring your sister?

(Doug Finney)

... (for sending to an ex) ...

How do I love thee?
Let me count the ways...
um... none!

(Michael Sheinbaum)

Monday, February 14, 2005

Identity: Exercise #1

Since Design just started posting on identity, it is probably time to start posting my identity exercises. These are a series of "essay questions" that you need to spend the time to actually write out. Using a list of points is fine - there are many aspects to you, and what is important is that you make these aspects concrete enough to be useful, and organized enough for you. I'll be pacing out exercises that will need you play with this material over a bit of time, so just get it done the easy way.

The first exercise: Write out a description of your "Ideal Self". Your "Ideal Self" is you as you want to be - the you you aspire to be. Spend 20 to 30 minutes writing about this - set a time limit beforehand.

In a couple of days, I'll post the next exercise. Do this one now, so you're ready.

Questions instead of affirmations?

Ricky Raft had a quite interesting post on using questions that presupposes what you want to affirm instead of direct affirmations. It is archived here, and the active thread is here.

Friday, February 11, 2005

(outlink) Brian Tracy - Motivational articles

Brian Tracy came highly recommended by ijjjji. I find them simple and somewhat superficial compared to most of the stuff I study, but their basics are good and they are motivational - well worth it for anybody that want this in a reasonably light package.

Monday, February 07, 2005


Reading the Mindlist FAQ, I found a new and interesting technique - "Image streaming", describe under "Project Renaissance, Image-Streaming". However, what I found most interesting about this is the descriptions of "Back-Up Procedures". These are ways to start doing full internal visualizations "from scratch" - something I've been trying to get an idea for how to do for years, since I normally only do it in deep trance. YES YES YES!

Nested stories / nested thoughts

Over on HypnoticTechniqueExchange, Thomas Drewing just posted a nice example of and induction for learning nested stories, which he has kindly allowed me to repost here. Nested stories/nested thoughts is a technique for slipping embedded commands to the subconscious of the person you are talking to. The idea is to start with one story where the listener associate with the main character, then use other stories to illustrate points in the first story, then again using more stories to illustrate later points. Each time you transition to another "level of story", you make sure that the main character is linked to the main character at the previous level. That way, the listener will keep associated. At the innermost levels of story, you will give the main character embedded ommands. The listener is associated with that character - so s/he will pick up the command. As you pull yourself back to the original topic of conversation, the subthread will be forgotten by the conscious mind - and only the command will be left.

Over to the posts:

From: Thomas Drewing (in reply to a post asking about examples of nested stories)

An example? Hmmmmm......you're kind of putting me on the spot here, aren't you? I have to admit...I'm a bit of a contrarian. But, it reminds me of when I was in school and the teacher kind of called on me "by surprise"....heheheheh. Did that ever happen to you when you were in grade school? Just, when your attention had drifted a little bit....and you were really intent on hearing something that was just too juicy to pass up? I had an uncle...my favorite uncle actually....he taught me to play chess, when everyone else thought I was too young to understand it. I thought I could do it just fine. But of course, there are always skeptics trying to tell you what isn't possible. Anyway....my uncle...when he was a fairly small kid...I'm not sure exactly what age.....had a problem communicating clearly exactly what he wanted. He was a stutterer....and often, when he really needed to be able to express himself in a way that someone would understand and take action on, he'd kind of freeze up for a second. You may have seen something like this if you watched the PBS special "I Clavduis". My dad used to let me stay up late....if I was good, of course....to watch it. If you're not familiar with the story....it was about ancient Rome and the Caesars. There was Julius and Augustus and Nero and Caligula, and a few others...who were all related and passed the Emperroroororroship (how do you say that? ;o) down from one to the other as history became embedded in the past. I'm not sure exactly what order.But at some point, The people had had enough of the system as it were.....and killed off Caligula. And that kind of left them in a bind....as there was no heir apparent, seeing as how the old system had pretty much killed off all the new talent. So, someone got the idea to nominate old stuttering Claudivs. And there was a bit of mirth at that, because everyone knew he was just a patsy.....that he couldn't actually master the most powerful empire on the planet. But, he fooled them. Beneath the guy that everyone thought they knew...the guy who had never been able to convince anyone of anything....lay a powerhouse...just waiting for the right moment. I'm sure he was just as surprised that he pulled it off, as anyone else. But, he managed to bring order back to Rome and to rule prosperously for years.All he had lacked before was confidence. But, once he saw that he really was in the position to do something, he did. His stuttering went away and he was able to confidently rule over all the naysayers....distinguishing himself to all whose lives he affected. Anyway...my uncle was like that. I don't remember him from before the time he made a big difference in my life. I never heard him stutter. I just loved him and was grateful to him. He changed my life. He believed in me. Is there anything better than that? The rest is ancient history, as far as I'm concerned. Through the years...I had some teachers who believed in me...and some who didn't. You may have had a special one or two yourself. I don't know. Most of them, by far, didn't see the possibilities in me, that just a couple did. I fought that my whole school career. But, it turns out that the ones who did recognize the vital spark.....were right. I did turn out to be a useful member of society. And perhaps the ones that didn't had a point too...even if they didn't mean it the way I do now. I used to get comments on my report cards. They usually read something like, "Thomas shows so much promise. If only he would learn to apply himself." Despite my contrary ways, I did eventually learn. In fact, I'm sure of it right now. They were right. I have applied myself. And I do have a place in the world. It's not a common one. But, its absolutely necessary. It just seemed to take me forever to figure out what it is. And I fought a good bit of the way. Maybe you have too. If I were to look that teacher who put me on the spot, right in the eye today, I would be able to confidently tell her....."Yes. I do know the answer!" I imagine my uncle had a similar experience. Who knows? Maybe you have something like that in your own life. But...don't you think it behooves us to think about what we are communicating to others? What's rebellion all about, if we don't use it to repay the debts we owe to everyone who has ever helped us? I want to make a difference in the world...even if its just a small personal one. I once read that you can never pay back what has been given to you. You can only pay it forward. But, the compound interest will blow you away! That's the kind of thing I tend to think about, in the quiet moments of my life. What if its true? Even if it isn't....I have to understand that I believe it. And isn't that the most important thing in life? Are your beliefs useful? If they are, then no matter what the "real" truth is....it serves us to serve others. And the best way we can do that is by communicating to them clearly, at levels that they will feel heard and loved. Every time we do that, its like someone we love and trust, telling us "You've done a good job!" Don't you like to hear that? I do. Good job!

... and then Thomas follows up with

Read it a few times....its basically installing the skill as it provides the example.As you read it....and feel yourself going into a bit of a distracted daze....feel free to simply take it on board structurally, with all the other skills you perform everyday without a thought. You don't think about driving when you hop in your car to go somewhere do you? No. That's an unconscious skill that simply shows up at the appropriate times, without you having to call it. Why should talking to people be any different than that? Just set your intent and talk. The part of you that handles that kind of stuff will do it just fine without any micro-managing. You can review it later in your mind, if you want a greater conscious understanding of the process. You will be amazed at all the things you do automatically without even noticing at the time! But, to try to follow and kibitz and interpret and ask questions, while it is going on...is a bit like that guy who interrupts you when you are sarging some luscious female, and keeps blowing her state and your flow. Don't be that guy to yourself. That would truly be irrational, would it not?

Yay for good use of language!

If you are in the group, Thomas continues with an analysis of what he does in the story here.

(outlink) Your Inner Mate

Alchemy Hypnotherapy, a hypnotherapy education institute with a "spiritual" bent (something I consider slightly suspect) has an interesting concept up: Your Inner Mate - The Key to Loving Relationships.

The basic idea is to hallucinate an "inner mate" - an ideal girlfriend that only exists inside your own head, one that loves you, lower your desperation level, and gives you advice on what girls to keep and what girls to reject, and gives you outlet for the wish for a really perfect girlfriend after meeting the flaws that all real life women have.

I'm considering creating a hypnotic script or MP3 to set you up with one of these; if people are interested, please leave a comment saying so.

Hypnotic Orgasms

For you other hypnotists out there, Brian just posted about Hypnotic. Orgasms.

It's contains a few different directions for building these; I personally like David Shade's "Pace how her body would behave" technique, but others should also work well.

NOTE: Brian's post is not an introduction to hypnosis, so you'll need some background to do this. There's an introducory course in hypnosis available over at NLP Weekly. I've not idea if it is good or not - I've not read it - but NLP Weekly is fairly good at finding good articles.

UPDATE: I just found a collection of suggestions for use when doing hypnotic orgasms over at Scyptnosis.

Friday, February 04, 2005

(outlink) Swingcat's blog

Swingcat has a live blog I've not noticed: Dating Tips For Men. Time to go read.

Thursday, February 03, 2005

Erotic Hypnosis Site

Just found a site dedicated to discussion of erotic hypnosis. It's a little rambling (IMO), but still worth a look: "HypnoFocus Erotic Hypnosis News and Community"

(outlink) List of IOIs, Levels of IOIs

Canes has posted a very good list of IOIs (Indications of Interest) over on mASF. This is a must read, must memorize.

UPDATE: Extra IOIs from the followup thread:

  • Getting out gum (Rappermas)
  • Smiling and showing all teeth (Rappermas)
  • Licking lips (Rappermas)
  • Smoothing clothes (Rappermas)
  • Constantly clearing her throat, like she hopes she can talk with you in a few minutes (Canes)
  • The strongest IOI I found is 'finger kino' where her hand is resting on you and and her fingers are 'exploring' you. If she keeps this up, she is 100% ready for escalation and sex! (ijjjji)

UPDATE: Extra IOIs from the followup on Thundercat's (by Vega):

  • She plays with her hair.
  • She leans into you.
  • She looks at you before any initial approach.
  • She looks at you twice before approach, it's on.
  • If she looks at you twice and then brushes up accidently against you while she is pushing / fighting her way to get to the bar (in a crowded venue), it's so on.
  • If girls keep looking at you all night long while in venue (regardless of whether or not you are peacocked), you are getting laid.

UPDATE (anonymous):
Her lips:

• Big smiles with upper and lower teeth showing with a relaxed face.

• Biting of the lips or showing of the tongue, licking her lips or touching of her front teeth.

• She wets her lips, some women use only a single-lip lick, wetting the upper or lower lip, while others run the tongue around the entire lip area.

• She puts her fingernail between her teeth.

• She protrudes her lips and thrust her breasts forward.

Her eyes:

• She gazes in your eyes with deep interest and her pupils are dilated.

• She raises both eyebrows exaggeratedly for a couple of seconds, this is often combined with a smile and some eye contact.

• She winks at you while talking to you or winks at you from a distance.

• While talking to you, she blinks more than usual, fluttering her eyelashes.

• Eyebrows raised and then lowered, then a smile indicates interest in you.

Her hair:

• She pushes her fingers through her hair. This can be one hand movement or more of a stroking motion.

• She twirls her hair around her fingers while she is looking at you.

• She is throwing her hair back off her shoulders.

Her clothing:

• If she is wearing clothes that show her nipples underneath and you notice they are getting perky and erect.

• The hem goes up to expose a little more leg.

• She is fixing, patting or smoothing her outfit to make herself look better.

While she is seated:

• She moves in time to the music, with her eyes on you.

• She starts sitting straight up and her muscles appear to be firm.

• She is sitting with her legs open.

• She sits with her legs crossed in a manner to reveal her thigh.

• Her legs are rubbing against each other.

• Her legs are rubbing against the leg of the table.

• Her crossed leg is pointed towards you or if that same leg is rocking back and forth towards you.

Her hands:

• She exposes the palms of her hand facing you.

• While talking to you, she rests an elbow in the palm of one hand, while holding out her other hand, palm up.

• She rubs her wrists up and down.

• She sits with one hand touching one of her breasts.

• She rubs her chin or touches her cheek. This indicates that she's thinking about you and her relating in some way :)

• She is fondling keys, sliding hands up and down a glass, playing with toys or other things on the table.

• She plays with her jewellery, especially with stroking and pulling motions.

• She touches your arm, shoulder, thigh, or hand while talking to you (in case you already haven't started kino yourself, dumbass :)

• She is pretending to look at her watch as you pass her.

Her voice

• She raises or lowers the volume of her voice to match yours.

• She speeds up or slows down her speaking to match yours.

• She laughs in unison with you.

• In a crowd she speaks only to you and focuses all of her undivided attention on you.


• She mirrors your body language and body positions.

• Her skin tone becomes red while being around you.

• She blows smoke straight out from between her lips and toward you.

• She leans over and speaks into her friend's ear, just like in junior high school.

• She is standing with her head cocked slightly at an angle, one foot behind the other, hips slightly thrust forward.

• At a party - every once in a while she seems to appear out of nowhere in your vicinity and if you move to another spot, soon she appears out of nowhere again, you catch her glancing in your general direction (actually, glancing at YOU dummy! :), she bumps into you... accidentally, touches you... accidentally etc :)

Wednesday, February 02, 2005

Stroking produces love hormone

The following comes from the RedNova News article "Being Stroked Calms Stressed Women Down":

Scientists say that an affectionate stroke of the back or neck may be of far more benefit to your beloved than other forms of relaxation, such as being left in peace in a foam-filled bath.

Caressing a woman - and it is only women, not men, who benefit - in a non-sexual way can lower her blood pressure as much as a dose of prescription drugs.

Researchers believe regular stroking may soon be viewed as a vital part of a healthy lifestyle, as popular as stress-busting aromatherapy and massage.

It has long been acknowledged that stroking a dog or cat - what zoologist and people watcher Desmond Morris calls an outlet for 'practical and comforting ancient primate grooming urges' - can lower its owner's blood pressure.

But new research suggests the one receiving the petting - in ancient times, the ape having its fleas removed - can benefit even more. While stroking has no perceptible effect on a man's blood pressure, gently touching a woman can enhance a relationship simply by reducing a woman's stress levels.

Experts studied 59 heterosexual couples, and say it works best if it is not part of any sexual activity, as sex can raise blood pressure.

In experiments at a US university, the woman was asked to sit in a 'loveseat' for 10 minutes while she watched a clip of a romantic movie and her partner stroked her hands, neck or back. The woman's blood pressure was measured before and after and it was found that stroking stimulated the brain to secrete a chemical called oxytocin which slows the heart down. On average, the women in the study produced 20% more oxytocin, a calming hormone, after the stroking.

Men did not show any oxytocin increase after similar contact, suggesting testosterone may blunt the hormone's effects.

Kathleen Light, a psychiatry professor at the University of North Carolina's school of medicine, which led the research, said, 'It is a new finding for humans. When a man strokes or hugs his partner it seems to stimulate an increase in levels of oxytocin which tends to lower blood pressure.' The team found the benefit of stroking was far higher than holding hands, lying together or maintaining eye contact.

Oxytocin - "a calming hormone", eh? To quote an article from "The Marriage Bed (Sex And Intimacy For Married Christians)" - one of the first references on Google:
Touch causes our bodies to produce a hormone called oxytocin. Not only does touch stimulate production of oxytocin, but oxytocin promotes a desire to touch and be touched: it's a feedback loop that can have wonderful results. Oxytocin makes us feel good about the person who causes the oxytocin to be released, and it causes a bonding between the two persons.


Oxytocin plays a significant role in our sexuality too. Higher levels of oxytocin result in greater sexual receptivity, and because oxytocin increases testosterone production (which is responsible for sex drive in both men and women) sex drive can also increase. Moreover, this hormone does not just create a sexual desire in women, coupled with estrogen it creates a desire to be penetrated (that is, it makes her want intercourse).

With this, you can reword the article: Stroking her will push her state towards where she falls in love with you and the state where she beds you. Usually, it will do this more than a sexual touch.

2000-year-old blogger

Today's freezing discovery: Brian, contemporary of Jesus Christ, is still alive and writing about erotic hypnosis.